Since you asked for feedback, I listened to the podcast twice to think about what I could suggest.
I'll start with three main positives. First, your biggest strength is that you exude passion and enthusiasm for what you're discussing. You also shared one useful concrete strategy, to design your lessons around what feels most alive in your subject. And lastly, "re-humanizing education" is a much more accurate and vivid summary of Egan's ideas than "imaginative education", so kudos for coming up with that.
Your biggest weakness is that, for a podcast ostensibly about the power of storytelling, there weren't actually that many stories. I counted a total of three:
- Your initial discovery of Egan in the library
- The class that visited the Columbia River gorge
- The clip that Jeff found of Egan explaining why New Jersey is named after Julius Caesar
That last example is something you could easily have shared yourself. You promised that there's plenty of educational content that can be shared with kids in elementary school that is both deep and juicy. But then you didn't share a single example.
Shortly after that, Jeff cut in and inserted the clip of Egan, which illustrated your point perfectly. But next time you set yourself up like that, please share something juicy! It's the difference between talking about a feast and actually tasting it.
Also, when Jeff asked you to talk about the Egan-inspired school that you visited, you talked mostly about how lesson planning would be different. But I didn't get a picture in my head of what an Egan school would actually look like.
I think explaining Egan's ideas better is not what we need. We'll get there eventually, but you already did that pretty well in your book review.
What we're really missing are the stories. If Egan has taught us anything, it's that stories and myths are more important than rational explanations when we create a new culture. But we have hardly any stories so far, perhaps because there aren't many actual Egan schools out there.
> "I think explaining Egan's ideas better is not what we need.... What we're really missing are the stories. If Egan has taught us anything, it's that stories and myths are more important than rational explanations when we create a new culture."
Yes. This.
Timothy, I think you're totally right — and wish I had realized this before I did the podcast!
Two things come from this. The first is that I'm sitting on top of a very large pile of stories and anecdotes; they just mostly concern, y'know, my own teaching in Science is WEIRD. I'm a Midwesterner, and as such have been inculcated to not talk about myself. I think that's made me loathe to share my own stories in this regard (Jeff LITERALLY ASKED ME to come prepared to talk about Science is WEIRD, and I tried to minimize it), and I'm thinking that I need to turn that around.
Second: there are a lot of teachers worldwide who've been using Egan for years. If we could start collecting their anecdotes, that might be WONDERFUL.
This is something that, realistically speaking, I won't have enough time for. If anyone is interested in taking this on — interviewing Egan teachers worldwide, and getting their takes — lemme know.
Another approach to concentrating all of Egan’s work into one tart fruit punch, would be to follow Woody Allen’s Rabbi. When Woody asked him who was the greater man Abraham or Moses, the rabbi answered Abraham, with a good rationale. Woody replied, what about Moses, he did the 10 Commandments, and the rabbi said, OK, so Moses. I have been in a dance with Egan for years, wondering if he had any hidden consolidation of his philosophy. I had several nice email conversations with him, short but nice. Like you, I reread his work regularly. Recently, we redid our entire house and I reduced my hardcopy library from 2000 books to about 25 books. About four of them are by Kahn Egan. It would be fair to say that I shaped my career around his thinking, but I only came to it when I was in my 30s and viewed it all as a most welcome gift, a confirmation that I was not crazy. once I had read him I upped my game considerably. By the way, bravo to your blog.
“ Systemic problems require systemic solutions, and those solutions hinge on culture.”
You can’t “teach” a new culture by sharing information. As another commenter pointed out, it requires stories. But it also requires the right relational context and incentives…
Since you asked for feedback, I listened to the podcast twice to think about what I could suggest.
I'll start with three main positives. First, your biggest strength is that you exude passion and enthusiasm for what you're discussing. You also shared one useful concrete strategy, to design your lessons around what feels most alive in your subject. And lastly, "re-humanizing education" is a much more accurate and vivid summary of Egan's ideas than "imaginative education", so kudos for coming up with that.
Your biggest weakness is that, for a podcast ostensibly about the power of storytelling, there weren't actually that many stories. I counted a total of three:
- Your initial discovery of Egan in the library
- The class that visited the Columbia River gorge
- The clip that Jeff found of Egan explaining why New Jersey is named after Julius Caesar
That last example is something you could easily have shared yourself. You promised that there's plenty of educational content that can be shared with kids in elementary school that is both deep and juicy. But then you didn't share a single example.
Shortly after that, Jeff cut in and inserted the clip of Egan, which illustrated your point perfectly. But next time you set yourself up like that, please share something juicy! It's the difference between talking about a feast and actually tasting it.
Also, when Jeff asked you to talk about the Egan-inspired school that you visited, you talked mostly about how lesson planning would be different. But I didn't get a picture in my head of what an Egan school would actually look like.
I think explaining Egan's ideas better is not what we need. We'll get there eventually, but you already did that pretty well in your book review.
What we're really missing are the stories. If Egan has taught us anything, it's that stories and myths are more important than rational explanations when we create a new culture. But we have hardly any stories so far, perhaps because there aren't many actual Egan schools out there.
> "I think explaining Egan's ideas better is not what we need.... What we're really missing are the stories. If Egan has taught us anything, it's that stories and myths are more important than rational explanations when we create a new culture."
Yes. This.
Timothy, I think you're totally right — and wish I had realized this before I did the podcast!
Two things come from this. The first is that I'm sitting on top of a very large pile of stories and anecdotes; they just mostly concern, y'know, my own teaching in Science is WEIRD. I'm a Midwesterner, and as such have been inculcated to not talk about myself. I think that's made me loathe to share my own stories in this regard (Jeff LITERALLY ASKED ME to come prepared to talk about Science is WEIRD, and I tried to minimize it), and I'm thinking that I need to turn that around.
Second: there are a lot of teachers worldwide who've been using Egan for years. If we could start collecting their anecdotes, that might be WONDERFUL.
This is something that, realistically speaking, I won't have enough time for. If anyone is interested in taking this on — interviewing Egan teachers worldwide, and getting their takes — lemme know.
Another approach to concentrating all of Egan’s work into one tart fruit punch, would be to follow Woody Allen’s Rabbi. When Woody asked him who was the greater man Abraham or Moses, the rabbi answered Abraham, with a good rationale. Woody replied, what about Moses, he did the 10 Commandments, and the rabbi said, OK, so Moses. I have been in a dance with Egan for years, wondering if he had any hidden consolidation of his philosophy. I had several nice email conversations with him, short but nice. Like you, I reread his work regularly. Recently, we redid our entire house and I reduced my hardcopy library from 2000 books to about 25 books. About four of them are by Kahn Egan. It would be fair to say that I shaped my career around his thinking, but I only came to it when I was in my 30s and viewed it all as a most welcome gift, a confirmation that I was not crazy. once I had read him I upped my game considerably. By the way, bravo to your blog.
> Why is this hard
As usual, Seth Godin nails it:
“ Systemic problems require systemic solutions, and those solutions hinge on culture.”
You can’t “teach” a new culture by sharing information. As another commenter pointed out, it requires stories. But it also requires the right relational context and incentives…